Tanya Tringali

Hi everyone. Today we are closing out the season with a very special guest. My friend Karolina Marielle is a trauma informed storyteller, teacher and artist. She's a longtime journalist and Podcast Producer who co founded the award winning podcast studio pizza shark. Through all of season three, Karolina has been helping me make improvements to the mother whip podcast behind the scenes. At the same time, she was training as an end of life doula and embarking on a journey to take care of her own health issues that we deal with a lot here at Mother wet. Karolina is joining us today to talk about her work, her health journey and how we ended up here. Karolina, thank you so much for joining me today.

Carolina

Thank you for having me, I never get to be interviewed.

Tanya Tringali

Well, you know that there's an exception to that. And I want to share that story in a moment. So we'll come back to that. Not that you were interviewed in the case that I'm thinking of, but it's one of my favorite memories of you. That's podcast related before. Before we got into doing this together. Yeah. Well, first of all, I just want to say thank you so much for everything that you have taught me and given me over this past. Oh, it's been about six months now that you've been teaching me the ropes. I didn't know how much I didn't know. And I know we'll unpack that a bit more. But I just wanted to say thank you right out of the gate.

Carolina

Oh, thank you for asking me to do it and letting me work on this with you and letting me change up all of your shit or sorry, all of your

Tanya Tringali

I think it's okay. Shit happens a lot

shit happens and birth shit just happen. So I think we can just have

Carolina

that should happen. I'm very attached to like having shit in my life regularly.

Tanya Tringali

We all hope to Yes,

Carolina

yeah. But yeah, thank you. And thank you for working with me on all of the health stuff that we're gonna talk about two.

Tanya Tringali

Yeah, well, okay, before we dive deep into these two things, I think it would well, I think it would be fun to talk a little bit about how we got to know each other and how we met. And I think our listeners might think that that's fun as well. So let me see if I can kind of pick up at a place that makes sense. And we'll we'll piece it together together. What I remember is about a year ago now, I just kind of like informed you because I thought I should tell you that I was gonna start a podcast. I was like, I have a friend who makes podcasts for a living. I should probably tell her I'm doing this. And honestly, it wasn't even like at the time. I wasn't even thinking oh, I need your help.

Carolina

I just know you just told me about it. I was like, okay, cool.

Tanya Tringali

I don't I'm looking back. I'm like, what an idiot like you don't know what you don't know is all I can say. So we're

Carolina

like, I don't want to, like bother you with this. And also I was so busy. I was like You go girl.

Tanya Tringali

I have to be honest, I didn't want to bother you but I also looking back I truly didn't think I needed that much help. I knew there were things I could tell me if you had endless time, but I didn't know what I didn't know. And I created a really simple system for myself that I thought made sense, until I started realizing how much I loved doing this, and that I wanted to be better than I was,

Carolina

oh, and love that I don't think you've actually said that to me before.

Tanya Tringali

Oh, see, that's funny, because in my mind, that's what made me come to you. Finally, when I finally reached out and said, May Day, I need some help, I was like, I want to be better. I do love it, I am having so much fun, it is such an interesting challenge. Because it challenges it challenges my brain as a midwife, clinically, because I am interviewing people, whether I'm interviewing another professional, who we haven't a little overlap, but their world is not my world, I have to come in with some amount of preparation. But too much preparation kind of gets in the way of your curiosity, and there's just like a sweet spot. And then when I'm talking to clients, it's a different part of my brain where, you know, I'm usually talking to former clients who I have a real bond with, but at the same time, I'm trying to draw out some of the clinical pieces, because what I'm trying to do is clue people into the types of experiences that one can have. And, you know, it's almost like I was trying, and I probably still am, to some extent, to be a little bit of like Jack of all trades. And I have to be careful with that all

Carolina

of that, yes, we have to be careful with taking on too much. But with all of that, also, you're trying to do all those things, you're trying to get the clinical part you're trying to, you know, keep your curiosity interviewing is an art. And like, even though this is a podcast that you do, as like, you know, a health professional, and as a business person, it is like a form of art. It's a creative process. It's a creative medium, and you are trying to incorporate the clinical part, you know, the sometimes business part, when you talk to other practitioners, and you're trying to incorporate like all of these different, like systemic issues and like personal relationships, and you're trying to do storytelling while you're doing all of it. And you're like, learning a new medium that you weren't working with before. So I think you know, just give yourself a lot of credit for even first of all, wanting to do a podcast. And now being on your third season. This is the last episode of third season, like a lot of people don't make it there. They don't make it this far, like, people sometimes don't even start. So you've done a lot. It's

Tanya Tringali

yeah. And I think that's what happened was I suddenly realized, like, Oh, I gotta have staying power. And there were so many things that were becoming challenging as I got more knowledge, you know, like a little knowledge is dangerous, that that, that place where we find ourselves sometimes. Yeah, so it's been really fun. And I'm sure we can talk about it some more. But I want to harken back a little bit to how we met. What I remember is that I went to a, like a woman's entrepreneurial event in New Orleans. And you were there and you introduced yourself, I think, basically, you must have said you were a Podcast Producer. And I'd never really met a Podcast Producer before. And you were like young and vibrant and so smart. And I was just like, I want to know that girl. And we like totally hit it off. But it was so cool. And we've had, I think a lovely friendship ever since. And we've kind of woven in and out of each other's lives in some creative ways. But when this when I finally reached out to you after doing two seasons on my own and starting to feel like I was drowning a little bit and knowing that there was a better way forward. I also knew that, you know, this is very low budget, and I couldn't really afford your services, and you deserve to be paid for your services. We all deserve to be paid for our services. Right. So I was like trying to figure out okay, how can I have just like a couple consultations and pull out the most important nuggets?

Carolina

That's right, then did some consultations. Yeah. Well, but

Tanya Tringali

so the part I don't really remember and that I'm curious about because it now relates to where the tables turned a little bit is, at some point, things shifted, and you put an offer on the table that you had some needs that I might be able to help you with. I don't really I don't remember how exactly. I remember being excited. I

Carolina

don't remember exactly how that came up. But yes. Okay. So we met at that networking event, which was actually I had just moved to New Orleans. I think I had been here like a week or something like that. It was like my first week in town and I was like, I'm gonna go make friends at this networking event because I didn't know anybody. And you were there. So you were actually like one of the first people that I ever met in the city. And it's been so good that we actually like stayed in touch and have developed this great friendship Uh, and now we're like working together in these very involved ways. Like now, you know a lot about me that a lot of other people don't know

Tanya Tringali

what I do with people,

Carolina

right, right. And yeah, so you came to me when you had been doing podcasts for a while, and I had been seeing you post about it. And I was in a spot where I was about to take on less work. I was about to clear my plate a little bit because of some health issues of my own. Right.

And I was at a point, it was kind of a pivotal point for me. You know, I'm 33. And I'm like, I've, you know, I know we're going to talk about this, but like, I've just done a lot in life. And I think I got to a point where I was like, Oh, shit, I have to kind of refocus what I'm doing with my life a little bit. And one of those pieces was my health and a lot of different aspects of it. And I realized, as we were working together on those consultations for the show, I was like, oh, you know, this is a good opportunity for us to just trade services, because at first I think we agreed that you were going to like, pay me for these consultations, and then you were going to, like, do everything else on your own? Which I don't know, like, I wouldn't have been able to do it, you would you would have been able to do something, but it wouldn't have been not what I did, right? Just like if I tried to midwife, someone, I would not be able to do that. So yeah, we I think that's what happened. I like found myself in this place where I was like kind of at a precipice and like looking at a really big change coming up in my life and having a lot more free time to help you with the show. And I said, Why don't we trade and you can help me with some stuff, and then I will help you with this season.

Tanya Tringali

So what I'm realizing now, as you tell it is that I remember now that you were really pushing me to tell you what my goals were. And then about for the podcast. And in doing so I had to tell you a little bit about the clinical side of what I do with people. And what I'm gathering now is that that's how this came up was you heard? Yeah. And I could help you as I tried to explain to you what I do for people and with people. Right? Right. Cool. Yeah,

Carolina

yeah. And like, why don't you tell us a little bit about what that is, because as we learned through the process of working together is that I, I, there was a point where I was like, I want you to talk more about what you actually do for people, because I think it's so powerful. And now I'm like, you know, tossing the question back at you. But I think you should talk a little bit about what that work. Like. When I asked you to share about those goals. And you know, your work with the podcasts? The answer that you gave me, I think you should say it now?

Tanya Tringali

Well, I don't know if I know exactly what I said to you, then there's two things that come to mind. There's kind of like the podcast specific goal answer. And then there's like the quick summary of what I see that I do with people. So I guess I can give you both of those. From the podcast side, my very, very sincere goal is to have conversations that both consumers of health care and health care clinicians feel they can be a part of. And sometimes that means that some things that I say, or my guests say might go over the heads of,

Carolina

of people half of Yeah, but like,

Tanya Tringali

we're all really smart people. And we can handle missing a few words here and there. And I tried to do my best to bring it full circle or put it in the show notes or whatever. It's not perfect, I'm sure. And on the flip side, there are many times where we're speaking directly to lay people and consumers of health care very clearly and concisely to make sure that they're understanding what constitutes quality care, and why our health care system comes up short so often. And, and in that that now comes around to what it is that I actually do with people. And I like to frame it in terms of filling gaps. There are huge gaping holes in our healthcare system. And most of that has to do With purely the amount of time and connection you create with people, and so much of the work that people need that can't get done in a doctor's office, or a midwife's office, can be done virtually over a computer through conversation. And lastly, there are huge, underutilized, safe and satisfying things that people don't get from health care. And that usually falls into the realms of fitness and nutrition. Yeah, and that's a lot of what I bring to the table when it's not sort of more in the vein of, of sort of mental health, organization planning life, blah, blah, blah, because all those things kind of go together, too. So I feel like those are the hats I wear. And I think at this point, I'm going to toss it back to you and say, we've been doing this for a while now. And we've dived into many of those conversations and topics, would you say that I'm presenting this accurately?

Carolina

Yeah, totally. Because, you know, I know we're going to get into this more detail in a little bit. But the work that we've been doing together has totally been work that is directly related to my health and well being and to my preventative health, right, because, like we've talked about, like my history, like family history of stuff, and like me being in my 30s, and thinking ahead to like my 40s in my 50s. And like, being kind of trying to get ready for for getting older, and my body aging in a way that is more sustainable, right. And also talking about mental health and like what kind of routines or like ways that I can manage keeping up healthier habits and you know, stuff that like I've never talked about with a doctor and like no doctor has ever given me any real kind of help with other than, like, a printout of like, you should eat veggies, you know, like some stupid shit like that. Um, so I think you speak something that's also very powerful for me as a journalist is that you are trying to do with this show, and with mother wit, you know, your, your client side, something that I think is super important, because you're, you're tackling like, a huge systemic flaw of our country, which is the health care system and how it's just, it's barely responsive, right? It's not preventative, and it's, it's just inaccessible, it's broken in so many ways. And you know, that having worked in it for so long, and having seen the impact of that on individuals that you work with, who come to you with, like, all of these kind of tangential issues, right, like I'm coming to you is, I'm not having a baby, I'm coming to you with all these tangential issues to my health, right? That I can't really get a handle on when I go see a doctor because that's not what their job is. Their job is to like, prescribe stuff, fix stuff, like, you know, Judge me a little and then I don't know, go on their way.

Tanya Tringali

Well, and there's there's just simply, there's some simple answers for right. Whether it's physicians, or it's nurse practitioners, midwives, physician's assistants, you name it, none of us are given more than a few hours of education on nutrition. And most of us are given close to zero, if not zero, education on exercise. We read guidelines put out by Massimo

Carolina

it's very siloed right. That's the other thing about our system is that he passed to see specialists for everything and something that so my family is from Peru, right? My I immigrated here with my family when I was 11. And I remember, my dad used to be a pharmaceutical rep, sales rep in Peru for a while. And so he knows a little bit about the healthcare system there. And just also as like a patient, you know, but I remember my parents talking about when we came here, how like, you have to see a specialist for every little thing, like your GP is not really like doing much, they're like referring you out to some other people. Whereas over there, your GP really covers a lot more ground. And I don't know if that's like good or bad, like better or worse in the in the whole of it, because I just I don't know enough, but like it is here very much like liability focused. And so you have to go to somebody who's specifically trained in this one thing as if your body and your life was just as siloed as that, you know, right. And

Tanya Tringali

the hidden problem with all of that is, and I've talked about this on a number of episodes. When people look at you through a narrow lens, they miss things, and there are things that no one picks up on. So if we go back to the episode, I think it was my first episode of season two, with Chantal, who I worked on with preconception care, you know, the the thing was, somebody was thinking about her blood sugar's and somebody was thinking about her blood pressures, but were nobody, they weren't talking to each other. And I said, you know, I think you have metabolic syndrome and she said, What's metabolic syndrome? No one had ever said those words to her and she very clearly met the criteria. And it's like what

Carolina

earlier we were talking before we got onto record, we were having like my health check in with you, right? And you said to me, anybody with mood disorders together tyroid check. And I was like, nobody's ever said that, to me. I've had mood disorders since I was 14, like, no doctor has ever mentioned that to me and like half of my life. Yeah,

Tanya Tringali

that's and that just makes me want to rip my hair out. And I'm just, I'm so I think I'm sometimes too burnt out for my own good, because I'm so frustrated that I, you know, sometimes don't know if I can be effective. Okay, I want to, I want you to tell us a little bit more, because I feel like we've we've alluded to what an incredible journalist you are, and all of this, but I want you to tie in a little bit more about your professional background with where you're going, because you have made an enormous transformation and the time that we've been spending a lot of time together working together in these ways. And you're moving into trauma work, which is something that is very near and dear to all midwives, and many types of health care providers. And we all need you and we need you in this space. And I would love it if you would share a little bit more about your personal and professional background and how it has led you to this place.

Carolina

Yeah, sure. Okay, thank you for pivoting to that as you were talking about burnout, because I think that is also all related. So I Okay, so I am an immigrant, I came here when I was 11. And my experience is like a very traditional immigrant experience in that my parents left their country in search of a better life. And so for their children for my brother, and I, you know, especially me being the oldest one, like I experienced a lot of like pressure to succeed, you know, from a very young age, because my parents had made this like humongous sacrifice, to give me a better life, so I had to kind of like show something for it. And I ended up, okay, I'm going like way back here, but I'll try and keep go

Tanya Tringali

there go there because fascinating stuff.

Carolina

So that's kind of like the I would guess, also now that I'm like studied in this shit, that's the sort of like, the origin story of how I ended up becoming like a type A overachieving professional, you know, I knew that I was supposed to succeed. And I had always been a good student, I had always been praised for that, that was like, the way that I was loved, you know, is because I got good grades and whatever. And so, I knew that like, the kind of point of my life when I was a young person was to go to college and get a job and like, be a professional, you know. And I have always wanted to become a writer, that has always been the thing that I want. Like, when I think about now that I've been doing end of life work, you think about your regrets you have, you have to like assess your life and think about what you might regret in your deathbed. And the thing that I will regret if I don't fucking do it is publishing a book like I've always wanted to be a book author. But when I was in college, I had this like, like, kind of weight over me like this, like huge weighted blanket, or cloud or whatever that I was like, I have to find, I have to like, pursue a major and a career that is going to have me earning a good amount of money as soon as I graduate. So I thought that I would like get into marketing and be like an organizational psychologist and do all kinds of like, very industry business related stuff. And then halfway through my college, my undergrad, which I've only done undergrad, so I don't know why I said it that way. But I'm halfway through my Bachelor's, I realized I was like, I can't keep fucking doing this. Like, this is not me at all. Like I just can't be like a person who only works in marketing and business. Because I have this, like whole other artistic side of me that I didn't know to name back then. But that's what was like. I was like yearning, you know. And I started I started taking classes in religious studies. And then I ended up actually changing my major to religious studies, which doesn't seem related to being a writer, but I think it just goes with like, being a person who is interested in like, intangible things in life, you know. And I remember this one day, I came home and I was so stressed out, like I mentioned, I have mood disorders, I'd like high anxiety, depression, and I was like, I had already made the change. I had already changed my major at the school and like, my parents are paying for school, like they're working their ass off, like every single day to like, take me to college, whatever. And I felt like such a bad immigrant child. I was so nervous to tell my mom that I had changed my major from psychology to religious studies because I thought that they were going to be so disappointed and mad at me and like, What the fuck is wrong with you? Like, why aren't you? You know, how are you going to make money blah, blah, blah. And I came home, and I was in the kitchen and I start bawling because I couldn't even get the words out to tell my mom, I was so scared. And then I told her, you know, like that I had done this and like, I don't want to be this other career, I want to be a writer like, this is what I want. And I'm going to minor in journalism. And that's how I like made it. Like, digestible, I was like, at least I'm going to be a journalist, you know, I'm going to study religious studies as like a content area. And then I'm going to minor as a journalist, minor in journalism. And then I'm going to work as a journalist, like, I'm still going to have a job, Mom, I'm just like, not going to have like a, like a big high paying job, because I want to be a writer and my mom, like when I said that to her, she started crying too, because she was like, You have always known that you were going to be a writer. Like since you were little, you've been the storyteller, and you've been writing and like, Oh my God, you're gonna make me cry with your face. My mom, my mom said that to me. And I was honestly so surprised, because these never fucking fostered art. My parents are like, practical, you know, like, they put me in sports, they put me in like academic shit. And like they did like music. I don't know how to play music. So I didn't know that she would be okay with it. And then that's how I became a journalist, because I thought I needed to still have like this practical side, right. And I had a very successful journalism career. I started in South Florida. Because I grew up in Miami. And I worked in newspapers, I worked in public radio, and I really, really loved public radio when I was in college. So I learned, like the audio side of things when I was in my early 20s. And then I moved into like a bigger, I went to like National Public Radio, and then I left and I started my own podcast production company with a very good friend of mine, which is what I'm still doing now. And I feel like I've been rambling. So now I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to say.

Tanya Tringali

Well, all that's left for you to do is take the segue with me to how this morphs into you doing trauma work,

Carolina

trauma work. Yeah. So, okay. Yes, thank you. Because the interest in trauma started when I was working at that National Public Radio Show. I have always covered immigration. And obviously, I have always been an immigrant. And I covered immigration during the first presidential election of the when Trump was running. And I even like before that just like talking to people about being deported, like being detained, being you know, in these like being like, people whose loved ones were murdered, because of hate crimes, you know, like, I've always been exposed to these very traumatic stories, and I've always gone into a person's life, talk to them about like, the worst day of their life for like hours, and then like, left and done my job, and, you know, maybe never seen them again, sometimes. And I started to realize that that was really taking a toll on me. There was a particular interview. I was working in Boston, at the time, and it was after the the 2016 presidential like election, I was doing a series on undocumented workers who get deported during raids. And this one person I talked to this guy who had been deported twice, he had crossed the border, he had like, walked all the way to New England from the Mexico border, like it was just crazy. And I could tell during that interview that this guy had never talked about this to anybody else in that in this much detail. And like he was just holding all of this in. He was just like pushing through life. He had a family back in Central America. And I was receiving, like unfiltered, this like really terrible, grueling story. And I couldn't even like get a word in like I was trying to ask follow up questions and kind of guide him to the things that I wanted to know. But he was just talking, it was almost like he couldn't hear me. And that moment that like experience really stayed with me. And then I started reporting on criminal justice and substance use and I became really curious about just how trauma, how people experience trauma, and I started studying trauma I am getting a certificate from the trauma Research Foundation, which is founded by Bessel Vander Kolk, who is the author of the book The Body Keeps the Score which is a very well known book about, like the physical and neurological effects of psychological trauma. Because the body remembers like your body remembers where you store your feelings. And you know, your body is affected by traumatic events, like you have taught me about cortisol and how I have to manage that, you know, because it's like stress is gonna kill me one day. So I started to learn about that. And I have become very, very, like, passionate about it in the last couple of years. So I have, you know, my production company where we get hired to produce podcasts. And then we also do some original podcasts of our own. And then I also teach a lot, I teach trauma informed storytelling. And the more I have gotten into that work, the more I have just become interested in like, these very difficult, emotionally difficult experiences that we have, that are a part of life, they are a part of, you know, being human and existing. And they are also really hard to talk about, and we're very averse to them. Because, you know, we don't have a society where it's even okay to have feelings sometimes. And this is kind of how I became interested in end of life work. So I just finished training as an end of life doula, and I'm working on getting a certification for that, which just means that I'm open to clients, so that I can have some hours you know, put in, but I am really interested in the end of life, because we're so scared of it, because we try to pretend like it's not going to happen. And I think it's also related to the work that you and I are doing together with, like my health issues, because I'm very aware that I'm going to die one day, I just would hope that it's not within the next like 10 or 15 years, and I would hope that it's not from like, some horrible disease that I could prevent. And, you know, like, some of my, my elders and ancestors have died from, you know, diabetes related complications, or, like, you know, that kind of thing, and I want to do my best to take care of myself holistically, so that I can have a good death as well. And I want to help other people do the same, you know, and as much as I am trained to do so, so that they can have a good death also.

Tanya Tringali

And I have been so happy to watch you go through this, because, you know, something I have not said on the show is that my dad died recently, six months to the day of being in hospice care. So I had a really close, you know, experience with hospice workers, which I had already had a passion for hospice workers, because anyone who knows about midwives knows that a long time ago, we kind of did birth and death and everything in between. And our society has changed in such a way that we don't typically do that anymore. But there is a trend, or I shouldn't say trend, that's not the right word. There are there is a subset of midwives, who when they no longer want to do the physical work that comes with birth, do go into end of life care. And as my dad was dying, I understood that much more. I kind of understood it intellectually, but then I really grasped it. And having real experiences with The Hospice workers just showed me what a special group of people they are. And I realized that a death and dying doula is not exactly the same thing as a hospice nurse. But there's clearly a relationship there. And I have so much respect for people who have the balls to do this work, because you have to face your shit to do this work. And I'm watching you face your shit. As you prepare to do this work. And it's it's been really, really special for me, as a midwife, and as somebody who just went through, you know, a long haul with death and dying. So yeah, it's been, it's amazing how these things kind of align and know and lives and friendships. Yeah,

Carolina

because you said earlier, you know, you were like, Oh, I just let you know, I was doing a podcast because I figured I should since you do podcasts, and then I was like, Oh, hey, Tanya, you know, I'm doing this training. Yep. Can you write me a recommendation? Yeah, and I think that's probably why I got in I got a scholarship.

Tanya Tringali

Well, it was it was an honor to write that letter. And I hope it helped. Yes, it did. Can I? Well, I want to lighten the mood just to drop before we change gears a little bit and there's a little tidbit of a story that I hinted at as we got started I still want to tell it. So you know with Karolina has podcasting experience at all, this should not have been a surprise to me, but you know, I listen to podcasts as I fall asleep on a timer. I put a timer on for 15 minutes. Sometimes I fall asleep after five minutes. Sometimes the 15 minutes I'm still awake and I will turn it on for longer but that's not my ideal situation. Anyway, one of my favorite podcasts to fall asleep to is the Duolingo Spanish podcast, they tell really fantastic stories. And for those of you out there who don't know this about me I'm a really bad Puerto Rican who's not perfectly fluent in Spanish and so I'm always like putting in a little bit of work to you know, I really don't know

Carolina

you're learning that's mean of me to say, you

Tanya Tringali

know, I I have I've pretty bad Spanish, but I do work hard on it. And Duolingo is one of the tools that I use. Anyway, one night, I was falling asleep in my bed in New Orleans. And I was like, thrust awake by hearing Tara Leno's voice telling her own story on the Duolingo podcast. I was like, what is happening right now? It was so crazy to hear you out of the blue with no warning. I have never forgotten that. I think about it almost every single time I turned on the Duolingo podcast.

Carolina

Oh my god. I love that. It's also funny because that story. It was an essay I did about a kind of what do you call it? Being an immigrant in school, you know, when I first moved here, and like what how it kind of affected me to be like a little bit of an odd one out. And I really love that story. I also love the Duolingo podcast, the production company that does it is I don't their media, and they are all like super talented and amazing. And I love them, and everybody should listen to their stuff. But that story I made in like 2018 2017. So that was an old episode of there's so you were like Devo is something

Tanya Tringali

I'm still working my way through the archives, they make episodes almost faster than I can keep up. I mean, yeah, find by like 20 Something episodes. And at this point, I kind of stay behind. And I try to stay in order, and just work from their back backwards to forwards because that I will lose track of where I'm at.

Carolina

And all the stories are so good. I've done other work for them. Like that was the story that I told. And I wasn't being interviewed because I wrote that story. I was just writing it. But yeah, so I actually this might be like the first time I'm interviewed on a podcast, actually,

Tanya Tringali

yeah, that's what I was like, it's not exactly the same thing. But like, just having that experience of hearing you on a podcast unexpectedly was kind of kind of

Carolina

Yeah, that's so funny that that happened. I love it. But yeah, that's fun.

Tanya Tringali

Okay, so I want to clue our listeners in a little bit to the types of changes that you've helped me make and why because I think I'll put this out there right now for our listeners, the ones who listen regularly, often to most episodes, whatever. I really want to get to a place where we can feel this community's presence. And I want more interaction with the community. And I have tried to do the things that can help us get there. One of those things is that I have put out a podcast survey so that people can give us some feedback so that as I start to operate independently, without the help of Karolina that I can still continue to get your feedback and figure out what direction I need to go and where I need to put my efforts to continue to improve. So can you tell us, me and our listeners a little bit about what was happening with my podcast and where and why you helped me? Take it to a new place? Can

Carolina

you tell me what you did? Because I'm fairly sure. Yes, okay, so we actually went through a couple of different, we went in a couple of different directions, because at first, I think I was just a little bit burnt out with work. So I didn't realize that we should approach things differently. So I first, when we first started working together, I did like sit you down? And have you talk about what is kind of like the concept of this show? And what are the goals of the show? Who is it for? What are you trying to do with it? And this is where we talked about right, what you said earlier about talking to both healthcare professionals and consumers and trying to have like honest conversations with people. And, you know, like, sort of building this community of people because another thing that you talk about, which I think is very much like in the spirit of everything that we're doing, you talk about how a lot of people that you know, or have worked with or clients or colleagues or whatever, are people who had like a birth experience with a birth worker with a midwife or something and then they become they go and they become a Burstbucker. Right? They become a doula or they become a midwife. And that's actually how you decided to become a midwife, right?

Tanya Tringali

Well, from my own birth, from your own birth, yeah, people

Carolina

like will go and give birth with a midwife and then they decide I want to be a midwife to where I want to be a birth doula or something. And then they become part of this like extended community of people who are trying to work either within or outside or fix this very broken healthcare system that tends to pathologize everything, especially as it relates to women or femme presenting people and whatever. And like, that speaks to me because I really do believe in like, leaving this world better than we found it, you know, so going back to death, because apparently I can't stop talking about it. One of the things that I had to do during my training as a death doula was to think about how I want to be remembered. And the only thing I could think of I like, still, I'm kind of meditating on it. But the only thing I could think of was I want to leave like, like a better system, or a better structure for people who live after me to be able to like, be better to each other, you know, and take better care of each other. I'm very much like a carer like you are. And like, I want to help, like, make it better. And I think that that's something that speaks to me a lot, because it's kind of what you're trying to do a piece of what you're trying to do with mother wit and with this show is create like a network of people who also want the same thing from this like birth angle or under this, you know, birth and Perinatal angle. Yeah. So okay, so I had you talk about what you wanted to do with the show. And that was one of the things that kind of stayed with me. And,

Tanya Tringali

and just to say, I had never said any of those things out loud, which is, like, who doesn't do like a little bit of a visioning experiment before they start a podcast? With no help? I didn't even do that.

Carolina

No, I mean, most people don't. And then you know, that's why a lot of the times when we get hired, when pizza shark gets hired, people are like, Yeah, I have this idea. And like, we're ready to go. And we're like, hold on, like, we don't know what your idea is, it's not clear. And like, maybe you don't really have the idea yet, you know, like, we have to talk about it. And most people think that you can just sit down at a mic and take off, and some people do. And they say that way. I mean, there's like Joe Rogan, you know, and all those guys, but there's a lot of people who just do that. And sometimes it works. But I am a storyteller. And I am like, you know, I have a lot of experience with story. And so I know that it's good to also have an idea of what you're trying to go for, you know, and that that helps you then that informs your process, right. So it's like, when you know that you're trying to have a natural birth, and that informs the process of how you take care of that pre pre birth person, you know, I don't know what the word is, but I'm trying to like pregnant person, yes. You know, if you know, that they're trying to have, they're trying to avoid a C section, or whatever, they're trying to avoid a hospital birth, and you're like, Okay, so these are the things we can do if you know, they want to waterbirth like, this is what we want, this is what we can do. So if you know that you're trying to do this show that is going to speak to these people then okay, this, these are ways that we can do that. So after we did that concepting phase, I moved into like the very practical part of like looking at your process looking at, you know, the structure of the show, like, you know, you have an interview, and do you have any other segments? And do you have this in that and thinking about how it could be done more sustainably, because you are one person and it is a lot of work to make a podcast. So I just started experimenting with like how that can work. And I think one of the things that is one of the biggest changes is well, we've now recorded a lot of like pre recorded elements. So like now you have you know, these bits that that you can just like plug into the episodes, which should be helpful. But also now you are doing your interview prep differently, right. And I wonder if you can share a little bit about how that has changed.

Tanya Tringali

Oh my god so much. I was just like writing out a list of questions that were interesting to me, and then really sticking to the script. Until Karolina pointed out that sometimes it sounds like I'm not listening to the person, because I move on to a question that doesn't any longer fit in that place based on what the person just said to me. And I was like, Oh, wow, that's so profound, right? It wasn't that there was something wrong with my next question. But I was just sticking to the script like ABCD. Keep going. The other thing just in terms of the plug and play part that you just said, for people who listen all the time, I know that those kinds of things can actually be a little bit annoying. We kept it very brief. But the reason that's important is because one thing I haven't said about why I do this podcast because I think I want don't want to admit how much this is part of the reason what drew drew drove me to do it is how much I hate dealing with social media and Instagram. I don't like doing it. So for those of you out there who see me posting on the regular If I don't like it, why maybe I'm doing a good job, maybe I'm doing a bad job, I don't even know because I don't enjoy part of having to do it, I have too much to do, I don't enjoy it. And what I realized was that in doing my podcast, and being kind of modest, I suppose, is the right word. I wasn't telling people what I do when I'm not doing the podcast. And I definitely intended for this to replace those other forms of, quote, unquote, marketing strategy that I didn't enjoy doing. I was enjoying this. But meanwhile, I was interviewing people, but still not really telling people what I do, or how you can find me or how you can work with me. So in very brief 32nd spots, I now have the ability to in the context of what's going on in the show, remind people what I have to offer in different capacity, what you do. And that was huge. We

Carolina

write what we what we did was before, if you listen to like the earlier season, the earlier seasons, you just like dive into the interview, but we don't hear you say This is Tanya, this is the mother whip podcast, and you know what the podcast is about? And that's like a pretty standard thing that we do. You know, like, professional podcasters, which is kind of ridiculous profession to have. But you know, it's what I've been doing the last five years of my life, but yeah, it's the kind of thing that somebody who doesn't know or who's not like in that field would not think about maybe, you know, and then I'm like the Tanya, like, how do I know what this is? Like, if I just find the show, it's just like two people talking. And I don't really know what the point is, or like what you're supposed to talk about. So the more information that you can give people I think the better and like, yeah, maybe it can be annoying to hear a pre recorded thing. But I think that your listeners probably also understand that you are a small business, you're one person and then they get like a really nice conversation afterward. Which Yes, like because now you're you're approaching, you're interviewing differently, and you're learning a little bit, you're kind of like honing your craft of interviewing. So you are responding more on your feet, you know, when you have a conversation with people.

Tanya Tringali

And, um, I What funny thing is that I'm going to miss you. Because in a couple of episodes where you really, you stayed on the interview with me and kind of coached me through. I learned so much from you helping me pivot. And I think there were times when I learned to pivot on my own and you would like congratulate me for doing so quietly behind the scenes. But you you were teaching me at the same time, how to stay engaged and not like drop off and just go to my next question, because it was my next question. And those are the kinds of skills that right now I need to work on in season four. So we'll see if I if I can do this on my own without you.

Carolina

They're great. I think you're doing a good job now like now this is this is like the first the first episode of The New Order. Right? So you're like, I'm not I told you I'm not working this interview.

Tanya Tringali

Yeah, you're just being interviewed. She's she's really not coaching me while being interviewed guys. No.

Carolina

I'm not writing messages to you, as I talk.

Tanya Tringali

Yeah. So anyway, I just I wanted to briefly we don't I don't think have to say much more. But I just wanted people to understand what was happening as I hinted at the fact that I was getting some podcast help. And when I took an impromptu break, that was not planned. It was because my bed Yeah, but it's okay. It's because Karolina realized I needed more work than we thought I needed at first. And that was fair and fine. And I was like, let's just put in the work right now. Let's do this. And that was great. And I really thank you for all your honesty and, and all your help. Okay, enough about me. I want to talk I've been talking. I feel like I've talked a little too much about myself, but I That's because I'm supposed to be the interviewer not to be interviewed. But we're just having

a conversation. It's a conversation. Exactly. See, I just forgot I still need you know, but really, I want to what I want to talk about is what a little bit more detail if you're comfortable sharing what is the work that we're doing together. I want to give people a flavor for what it's like because I don't talk enough about the work I do with people but it's not directly related to like making a baby, right like it when it's just about wellness and I do this and then I just don't talk about it quite enough. I hint at it, but don't get into detail. So can you do you feel like sharing a little bit more about Yeah, I want to because

Carolina

I think it's my god it's been like, life changing. So okay. I want to talk about it because because it's not related to a specific thing I'm trying to do with my life like have a baby. There's not like a specialty for it and or Maybe there is but like, I would have to find it on my own by like, going to see all the doctors in the world and having them bounce me back and forth, you know, to maybe like, an endocrinologist, I don't fucking know. So I came to you at a point when I was going through. So I mentioned that I have lived with mood disorders for a long time. And I have known that and I've, you know, like dealt with them as best as I could, my entire life. And I think pretty much since the pandemic started, I don't think it was necessarily exactly correlated to that. But that's around the time that I started to notice, like, some different functioning symptoms come up. And I was I went through this, like very intensive process, years long process of trying to get tested for ADHD, because I felt that that's what was happening, I was having trouble getting things done. You know, like, I shared that I'm like a very high functioning individual, I do a lot of stuff, I take on a lot of work, I always have like a million things going on. And suddenly, I was like really struggling to like, take things off my to do list. And that was really, really fucking with me, I was feeling really, like I was feeling a lot of shame about it, I was really down on myself, it was like triggering all of the depression and anxiety and all of that stuff that goes together. And it was also affecting my ability to nourish myself to feed myself to, like, maintain any kind of exercise routine, or any kind of routine at all, I also have, like really severe insomnia, I've so for the last few years, before COVID, I have been trying to, like, get a hold of all of that, especially the sleep part because I learned that, you know, my, if I don't sleep, then the next day like I'm very unable to do my work. And then that triggers like a depressive episode and then I'm eating crap for a week and then I you know, feel worse about my so it's just all of this ball that snowballs out of control. And it makes it really difficult to like live. So I had been struggling for a while. And then finally was able to see a psychologist who did screen me for ADHD and a bunch of other stuff just like a full psychological assessment earlier this year. And she didn't find that I have ADHD, she attributed my, like functioning issues, my executive functioning issues to PTSD. And, you know, I, it's, I have I have complex PTSD, so I, you know, just have like a history of trauma. And I didn't know that I had this diagnosis when I started to study it, but it totally makes sense. And then I got this diagnosis, and it kind of like rocked my world because I like knew sort of intellectually that yes, I've experienced trauma. And that definitely affects me, but I don't think I had connected it to it being so pervasive in the day to day where it's now like, limiting me from accomplishing very basic tasks, like doing my dishes, and, like eating and like even, you know, gardening like things, I also like I own a house and I have I feel like a lot of pressure to maintain it, you know, so like, oh, the front yard looks like crazy, I haven't done the weeds, like all of these things were just really weighing on me. And then after I got this diagnosis and like an explanation for why I'm having such a hard time, I was like, Okay, I need to pause and like reassess my life in a total 360 way. And you know, for years now, I've also been trying to another reason that all of this stuff that I just mentioned was so hard and stressful is because for years like since I was in my 20s I have been trying to get like my exercise and nutrition under control because I have a history of like diabetes and heart conditions in my family. And I am a person who like tends to eat tons of sugar like I you know, have probably like a sugar addiction, you know, and I have failed like miserably at getting all of that under control consistently. So to kind of learn that the barriers I had to maintaining these like nutrition and exercise habits were coming from this like, bigger place, you know, like getting the PTSD diagnosis. It just made me be like well, okay, I really have to reassess my life and take a take a pause. And also, the reason I came to you with it at that time was because last year I had like a bout of hormonal acne that I had never had acne before. And I went to my dermatologist because I don't know it was on my skin right so I went to see the dermatologist and she's the one who mentioned you should take a look at PCOS because I had I had acne like all over my, my basically beard line like my chin and my neck. And she said, I should go see the OBGYN and see if I have PCOS. So that's when I started talking to you about it, because it kind of also like blew my mind that my dermatologist told me that a lot of like the skin issues that I have lived with for a long time are metabolic related. I didn't realize that. And then I talked to you about it, and you put all of these dots together of like, mood cravings for sugar, the the skin stuff and you know, like just all of that you were like, yes, there are reasons that all of that you're experiencing all of this, and I, you can explain them better than I can. But the work that we have been doing together has been to basically, you know, you're coaching me on how to talk to a doctor so that I can get the tests that I need. And you're also really, really coaching me on exercise and nutrition, which has been super helpful. I think that's, that's it, right? Yeah,

Tanya Tringali

no, I mean, and it's, it's a lot because we bounce around. And I think I do this with most people I work with, we bounce around from, okay, in this moment, you need information, education, evidence, then we pivot to what are the emotional and organizational barriers into the actual how to? What are the actual things, tangible things you can do to make a difference? And how much can I ask of any person at any moment? And so there's a lot of balancing of those three things that goes on. And that's why it's so time intensive, and why the human connection is so important. Because you have to you have to trust me, and how can you grow trust, if you see a provider for going out on a limb, and I'm probably overestimating, when I say 15 minutes once every three months, which is the most anyone would ever see a traditional provide seeing

Carolina

a doctor that many times

Tanya Tringali

and knowing that, that I just overestimated and we just basically gave you an hour over the course of a year, and I just overestimated. And therefore all that they can do is tell you what you need to do. So you've now heard the words, maybe maybe exercise in nutrition, and that's like the best it's going to get, that doesn't help anyone

Carolina

with also, as a person who has a bigger body in the world, like I have always been fat, you know. And I've just only been been getting bigger, the older I get. And that's also another thing that like scares me because I know that that just tends to happen. And because of the family history, the health problems that my family that I have, and just like my habits, I like you know, worry about, you know, how long I'm going to live and how well I'm going to live. And because of the way that I look, and because of my weight and my height and my BMI and whatever, like often, when I see a GP or any other kind of doctor, like an OBGYN. They like to attribute whatever problem I'm having to my weight. And they like to say you need to lose weight as a solution. And I know that that is a part of it. But they say it with like, just No, like help. You know, they're just like you have this problem and you need to take care of it. And then there's also a lot of like stigma around weight, right in our society. Like there's a lot of judgment that happens like I've definitely had, I was have another reason that like I was just experiencing so many health issues. And I know that I've kind of talked all over the place about it, but it was like the mental health stuff, the acne stuff. And then I also had three ankle injuries in one month while doing no exercise at all. Like I was literally just walking out of the house and three times in one month, I rolled my left ankle. And then I started to see a physical therapist, but I had also had knee issues in my 20s which is very young. Right. And I had seen a physical therapist back then. And they were like, yeah, it's because you're fat, like, you know that your knees can't handle it basically. And I was like, Okay, well like fuck me like, what what am I going to do with that? You know, it just makes me hate myself. Also like growing up as a woman like and a Latin family, like the pressure to be skinny and lose weight has always been on. So it just has never been helpful for me to even. It doesn't make me want to even talk about this stuff with a doctor. Right and I have as I've been working with you I have told you like there are some things that I'm sensitive about, like when we talk about my weight or whatever. Like, I may not want to go there, but like, I want to do the diet, I want to do the exercise, you know. And I've never felt judged by you, because I know that you are aware that people have body issues and that the solution is not like, Oh, here you go. Today, I'm going to tell you, you know, on this one day out of the year that I see you to go lose weight, and then you're gonna be fixed, like, you know that that's not what it is. It's like every single day, you need to do this little thing. So that gradually you can see an improvement. Yeah.

Tanya Tringali

And just to make this a little more, I think tangible for listeners, like how does this translate into things we're actually doing together working on one of those things that we just talked about today. To normalize some of this, that I remember saying to you is, this isn't about fat. This is about muscle mass. We know. And people don't know this stuff, we know that the amount of muscle mass someone has, correlates directly to living longer and living well longer. And it doesn't matter so much, how much fat mass we have, in addition to that muscle mass, but that we have adequate muscle mass. And yet, so if we just make the focus, let's just get stronger. And that's one of the things that you aside that I have seen happening slowly that I actually find to be incredibly inspiring and positive about where we're headed. In the world, in subset of healthcare is people do come to me much more often. With the goal of getting stronger. Sometimes it's because they're postpartum. And they say things like, I just want to be able to keep up with my kid, I want to be able to pick up my kid and not hurt my back or whatever it is. But strength is where they're coming from, rather than like, help me be skinny. Yeah, help me be Yeah, it doesn't work for anyone Oh,

Carolina

and skinny is not healthy, right? Like, it's not the marker of health. So it's just so fucked up that like, me, and so many other people, their entire lives have been like, shamed by doctors and made to believe that I just deserve to be unhealthy and uncomfortable and in pain, because I'm fat. Like, that's literally the messaging that I've gotten over the years. And the only reason that I even started to the only reason that I became open to the idea of going to a gym at all, because I have always been afraid of gyms I'm not I'm like very much an indoor kid. I'm not like a, like an athletic person, you know. I mean, I was on the swim team when I was in school, and I am very good swimmer. But aside from that, like, I don't like to sweat i don't like I don't like, you know, burpees like, I hate that. But after I injured my ankle, I worked with this really great PT. Eventually, I found like a good practitioner who like, you know, worked for me, and I saw him for months. And then he was like, Okay, you look better like your your ankles better. And it seems like you're doing better. Like he also was making me exercise at his office. And he gave me like a home workout program. And he told me, he was like, the kind of injury that you have, like, cannot really get better without surgery, the only thing you can do to avoid surgery is to get stronger to like strengthen the muscles around your ankle, and the whole system of like, my whatever is my muscular I don't know what it is my legs, my hips, my every my core, you know, so that I'm walking better so that I have more stability, more balance. And that's why I was like Tani, I recommend a trainer to me and I started working with a trainer that you knew. And I was like, recommend a trainer to me who's not going to be an asshole and who's not going to like force me to do stuff and who's not going to shame me because I am who I am, you know, and he doesn't, he's really good. He taught me a lot. And he gave me the foundation that I brought to my work with you. And like now I love I love going to the gym. I love lifting like I love, like feeling strong and feeling stable. You know, like, I just really love that I can do that. I didn't know that I was a person who could exercise. You know.

Tanya Tringali

Now you're making me feel Wiebe, because that's, that is like the best thing anyone I work with could ever say. Yeah, because you take that with you for the rest of your life. It doesn't have any it doesn't end because we end I'm just giving you the skills and trying my damnedest to make it fun or at least something where you walk away and you go oh my god, I'm a badass I did that. Yeah, like the

Carolina

other day Okay, last week Tanya had me do strict press, which is on a barbell and you like lifted up over your shoulders over your head like a Superman. I love that description. So about Yeah. And I didn't know what it was, you know, because I don't know any of this stuff but I Um, I go to the gym on Sundays. There's like a women's weightlifting group that I that I meet with. And one of the women was like, oh, a strict press. I love that. It's like your badass pose. And I was like, okay, like this, and I did it. And I was like, fuck yeah, like, just me and like my other ladies who live, you know, like, pressing this barbell over my head. And I couldn't really do it with any weights on it. It was just the naked bar which weighs

Tanya Tringali

45 Naked part. The Naked bar is 45 pounds. That's nice thing right? Now, you can press your dog over your head, I'm pretty sure he's bigger.

Carolina

But yeah, you know, the thing is that I would love for, like, your listeners to know is that you make it accessible, right? Because I told you like, today, I went to the gym and I was not having it. I was like, I'm not fucking jumping. They're gonna try to make me jump. And I was like, No, I can't do that. I'm scared, my knees are gonna get fucked up, my ankles gonna get fucked up. I'm not ready to jump. And I may never be ready. And you told me that's okay. You know, I can do something else. Like I can change. There's modifications that you can do. And like all of these exercises can be accessible to me. And I don't know if you remember, but a long time ago, like, years ago, I came to you for this help with the same shit. But I wasn't in a place where I could actually keep up with it. Because I hadn't had my mental breakdown yet.

Tanya Tringali

I was so worried. Right? We just did in the moment,

Carolina

a new beginning. Yeah, so I came to you. And I was like, Yeah, I'm scared, I don't know, blah, blah, blah. And you explain to me that the thing we need to do is make it so that the exercise is like the exercise fits my body instead of my body fitting into the X ray, you know,

Tanya Tringali

and I think this is where a lot of the people, the people who work with me quickly understand that just because I talk a CrossFit language doesn't mean I'm making them do CrossFit per se, right. But there is a there are aspects of CrossFit that are so translatable. And one of those things is is really that CrossFit teaches you that every single movement can be done by every single body of every age of every type everything. So while an elite athlete might be able to leap off the ground onto something, a gazillion feet into the air, a 90 year old man may leap up onto a plate that's one inch off the ground. And they are doing the same exercise. And that's the goal, right. And so there are lots of principles that CrossFit teaches you when you really embody what it is and not just the like annoying brute strength of it all or all that stuff that people see on the surface. So that's where a lot of that stuff comes from for me. And then the other piece of it is, believe it or not, even though Karolina is not pregnant nor postpartum, so many of the concepts that are learned in my training that came that's about pregnancy and postpartum, it's really actually totally applicable to just aging bodies and changing bodies. And it's all about finding where you're at, and finding a way to make it work. It's that simple. And one of the things we always talk about is remaining curious and remaining in an experimental headspace so that we don't, it minimizes how critical we are of ourselves, regardless of whether we're working on like something very clearly in the healthcare domain, or nutrition or fitness, the day we don't want to go, whatever it is, like it helps us just remain curious about our process.

Carolina

Yeah, that's something that you said to me today. And that was helpful, because I still am this very, like, high achieving person. And I was like, I didn't do a good job at the gym today, because I'm having a bad week, and blah, blah, blah, and you know, all of it just starts to snowball, because that is what I tend to do. And so that's another thing that I thought of when you said, the personal relationship matters, like working with you, as opposed to like having some doctor that doesn't know me, you know, I'm able to tell you, like Tanya had a really rough week, I'm having like, a flare up of my depression or whatever. And so I just like phoned it in at the gym, and now I feel like shit about it. So that's where I'm at. And you are like, okay, receptive to that, you know, and like, You're aware that it's a process. And you're also aware that all of that stuff comes into play, and how I'm going to be able to take care of myself, instead of just telling me like, well, you should just go lose weight or whatever, right?

Tanya Tringali

Yeah. And I reminded you that you had a big win and showing up and doing what you did anyway. It doesn't mean you don't have to perform your best every single day. Nobody does. I don't care what you think is happening and other people's bodies or brains or lives. It's not true, right? It's this is like akin to what people put on Instagram, versus what their real life is like. We think we know what goes on and other people's minds and bodies and their lived experience but we don't and the art and the skill and what the skill you're trying to learn right now is consistency. Right and totally. And we have to, and equally, learning to cut yourself some slack. Because you are a perfectionist. And by the way, I've said this on many episodes. I don't think I've ever had a client ever that doesn't identify as being type A.

Carolina

Like you did say that.

Tanya Tringali

Yeah, it is. It's a crazy thing, every single person on their own accord identifies that way. And I think that that is that's just who I connect with, because that's who I am also,

Carolina

one thing that I want to talk about, because I think that for me, at least as a listener, and as somebody who like doesn't know, or somebody who has, like learned about what you do, is the fact that so we've talked a lot about exercise just now. And I don't think we talked a lot about the hormonal aspect of it, like, Yes, I am not perinatal, right, like I'm not trying to conceive, and I'm not postpartum or whatever. But like, just learning about my reproductive system with you and my female hormones with you, and how that affects everything else in my body and how it's related to my metabolism and how it can affect also like my mood and like these. Oh, my God, Tanya, when we first talked, and you gave me this rundown of PCOS. And it was very overwhelming. But it was also like, there is a scientific reason that you crave sugar in the evening, like there's a scientific re or there's like a bias, something's happening in my body that is causing me to go there. That lifted, I don't know, if I told you this, that like lifted so much shame from my shoulders, because I was like, I'm just a fat ass, like, I just love to eat like chocolate or ice cream or whatever at night, because that's just who I am. And it's something that I feel shame about. Because it's a bad behavior. And you were like, No, there's like a lot of stuff that's like, causing you to continue to go there. And I couldn't tell you what it is. But like the fact that you explained it to me, made me just feel like less bad about myself, you know, and just like, Okay, this is something a condition that I have, that I'm living with, or like a symptom that I have, and I just have to do my best to take care of myself around it.

Tanya Tringali

Yeah, without getting into the weeds. I'll just summarize for our listeners, that this is about like the mind gut connection, like your gut, you'll hear people talk about how our there's brain in our gut. And it's because they're very well connected. And it's like a huge can of worms. But these two things go. So hand in hand, our guts talk to our brain, and our brain talks to our gut. And we'll keep it at that for right now. But there are ways that we can change cycles. And it starts by making one little change at a time, something I realized, a little teaser I want to throw out there. I don't even know if you know this, because I've been trying to manage season four on my own without bugging you too much. But based on this last maybe 20 minutes of our conversation, I want to point out that I'm having two colleagues come on towards the end, I think of season four, I'm still kind of working out the details, who are going to talk about their PhD dissertation work. One of them is somebody who talks about physical activity very differently from me, she and I actually just co authored a chapter and a new textbook that's coming out. And she talks about physical activity while I talk about exercise, and those two things are different. So she's going to come on the show and talk about physical activity. And another person is going to come on and talk about weight bias and stigma in the healthcare system. And that's what her dissertation is on. And I think I need some of that, too. I need the education. She's gonna give all of us. And I'm not even 100% sure if I'm going to agree with everything she has to say. But I really look forward to hearing what she has to say and seeing if she can teach me a thing or two about doing my work. Yeah,

Carolina

better. That's awesome. I love that because, you know, like I said, I definitely have experienced weight bias even against myself. And while I know that there are like reasons that it will be helpful for me to lose fat, I guess, or really build muscle. Like I still have feelings about people making it an all about your weight, you know, in the health space. So I'll be I'll be interested to hear that conversation too.

Tanya Tringali

Yeah. Oh, well, I think we could talk for like another hour, but I don't think we should.

Carolina

You're probably right. I don't even know how long it's been. But it does feel like a while. It's been

Tanya Tringali

just shy of an hour and 15 minutes. Actually. We've we've had a good long discussion. And yeah, I hope that our listeners have appreciated it. I hope that our listeners appreciate the changes that you helped me make in the podcast. I hope that the changes you helped me make helped me have longevity in this and get better again. more listeners, I grow this community and the way that I want to. And I hope to, I am so happy that we get to continue your journey together. I'm really looking forward to seeing where all of this goes.

Carolina

Yeah, me too. And I hope that the changes that you're helping me make, give me some longevity.

Tanya Tringali

Absolutely. That's the goal, man. That's what it's all about. I always say this is about, you know, being able to get off the floor by yourself when you're 90, right? Like, that's how I like to look at it. Like, this isn't about winning the Olympics or anything? I mean, maybe like a competition comes up in your life. Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. But will you be able to get off the floor when you're 90? Everything I do, and I'll be good with saturating thing. We're gonna have that number down the road, too. But anyway, I'll take it for now. All right. I thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today. Thank you so much, Tanya. I love you. Love you too. Yay. That was so fun.

Carolina

Yeah, that was good.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai