Kallista

We all have our daily, weekly and monthly things that we do to run our households. And when you add a baby into that, it just just throws a wrench in the whole thing. You know, and that's one of the things we don't think about before the baby comes is how much we're actually already doing. Nevermind work because you're like, Oh, I'm gonna take maternity leave. And yeah, I have X amount of weeks off and so that squared away, your home is another job that you're not thinking is a job. And so when you can take that off your plate and put it on autopilot as much as possible before the baby arrives, you just have more time more time to bond with your baby, your partner, and more time for yourself.

Tanya Tringali

Hey, everyone, I'm your midwife, Tanya Tringali. Welcome to the mother whip podcast, a show about the issues we healthcare consumers and providers face every day as we interact with the medical system. We'll talk about its blind spots, shortcomings, and share strategies we can use to feel seen and heard no matter which side of the table we sit on.

Tanya Tringali

My guest today is Calista Anderson, host of the new mom boss podcast. I was on her podcast in January and I'll link to that episode in the show notes. Calista helps people get ready for their baby by preparing themselves, their space and their partners for what lies ahead. She does this through her podcast coaching, and an online course that she calls the new mom prep school. Calista is also a registered nurse, a certified lactation counselor and a mom of three Calista, thank you so much for joining me today.

Kallista

Thank you so much for having me on. So happy to be here.

Tanya Tringali

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to our conversation, because I think you have an interesting take on something that our listeners could really learn from and even our health care providers, right, because our health care providers end up in conversation with their clients about regular things like that's what we want, we want conversations that aren't just solely focused on medical that kind of recognize the importance of like, our whole selves, and all the parts of our lives being represented in our overall health. And I think you bring that to this discussion. So I'm really excited to hear what you have to say.

Kallista

Yeah, exactly. I think there is, you know, so much is missing in health care that there is a big void that I am trying to help Phil and I know a lot of the people, such as yourself that have come on my show, and other guests have the same mission. And I think it's totally needed, we have a long way to go. But we're working on it.

Tanya Tringali

Definitely, so okay, your perspective on this, as I understand it was shaped in part by your own experience. So as I understand it, you had your first two kids 13 months apart. And that is kind of how you came to this passion for the work that you're doing. So I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about yourself and a little bit about that experience and how it led into the work that you currently do. Because you know, from where I said, I'm a mom of one who never for a minute, felt ready to have a second kid. And by the time I had a seven year old, I knew I was done and I wasn't going to have another kid. So I've always really fascinated by people who either knew, or were just brave enough to have two kids close together, let alone then go on to have a third or more.

Kallista

Well, you know, when we make plans, God laughs Right.

Tanya Tringali

Exactly.

Kallista

So yeah, so I love telling my story, just because it is kind of the, the what catapulted me into doing what I do. So I hadn't, you know, I had all intentions to just be a nurse. Not just but that was my career, you know. And then after having my first and second, I became very passionate about helping other moms. And so what happened was, I had always wanted to be a mom. So I did all the things I thought we would normally do to prepare. And having my medical background, I felt very confident, you know, you know, going into pregnancy and I wasn't afraid of the labor and delivery, and my husband's a doctor and so I just felt confident as you know, entering motherhood and I'm a planner, I'm very organized. I got all the things ready way ahead of time. I even took time off of work so the baby was going to be my sole focus. And she arrived my daughter and it was really, really hard. harder than I ever expected it to be with the sleep deprivation and not knowing how to breastfeed, you know, I thought it was, you know, I followed around a lactation nurse when I was in nursing school. And Didn't I just tell you, I always wanted to be a mom. So I'm like, that's enough, you know, we're gonna get this. And even though, as you know, and most listeners probably know, this, it's breastfeeding is like the most natural thing, but doesn't mean, it's easy, which I learned only when I got to that point. And so I had to quickly figure out because I really wanted to breastfeed. And lucky for us, I found a breastfeeding support group, because I wasn't a lactation consultant at the time. And we got into the groove, and we were able to go on and breastfeed my knee and my daughter. And so, you know, I was just kind of surviving those first few months and kind of just disappointed in the experience, because it was harder than I thought. But you know, you're just surviving by doing your best. And then when she was four months old, I found out I was pregnant again. Wow. And yeah. And so that's another thing that was kind of a misconception or a myth that if you're breastfeeding, that's birth control. wasn't the case. I learned later that it can be if you're exclusively breastfeeding, and your your baby is less than six months old. But I was I was supplementing a little bit with a formula. And, you know, I wish I hadn't done that. Because that really help didn't help my supply. But anyhow, that's when I was like, Oh, my gosh, I, first of all, I need to do something different before this next baby arrives, because I can't do this again. So I didn't know whether to laugh or, or be happy or cry, I chose not to cry. And I chose that, you know, to plan differently. So what I came to learn was that even though I thought I was prepared, you know, I couldn't say I was unprepared, I was Miss prepared. And I think that's what a lot of first time moms do is like, we kind of spin our wheels and prepare for our baby. But we're preparing for the wrong things. And so, second time around, I figured out what I really needed to prepare for that was valuable. And that was really going to help me in the postpartum period. And I did that. And I went on to have a beautiful second postpartum experience, I really got to bond with my son. And, you know, I felt a little sad that I didn't get to do that with my daughter. And so I started, you know, since I had babies back to back, and I had friends having babies and family, they would ask me for advice. And it just became something I wanted to do. And I went on to create my company, new mom, boss to continue to help other moms, especially first time moms, because you don't have to wait for the second time around to feel like you've got things, you know, you can have that second time mom, feeling the first time around if you prepare the right things.

Tanya Tringali

Absolutely. I love how you come at this, because I think you know, you get so intimately from your own experience that what you get in the medical environment, whether you're a patient or a provider, it can give you this false sense of security. And that sounds like I mean, correct me if I'm putting words in your mouth, but it sounds like that's how you came in to Baby number one was like you had every reason to think you were prepared. You were like more knowledgeable than the average person by nature of being a nurse. And yet you kind of got slapped in the face by the reality of the situation. So I mean, if we can only imagine what it's like to not have that medical background.

Kallista

Well, I like to say I had medical arrogance, you know, and it really humbled me. And yeah, I thought like, Wow, if I felt confident, and I have this background of knowledge, I can imagine a mom a first time mom who doesn't have any knowledge, you know, doesn't feel confident with because they're in a totally different profession, or someone who, you know, it's so funny because having so many people on my show. It's it's a spectrum the gamut of moms who always wanted to be moms like me, and I've had guests who never wanted to be moms and became a mom and obviously they love it and they're so passionate and passionate about it and go on to even help other moms in this space. But we all end up at the same place where we just want the best for our babies. And when we're just striving or or just wanting, we're just surviving, and we're just trying to get out of this kind of postpartum hole, you know, whether doesn't matter where you're from, what what your background is, we're all we all want the same things. That's like the common thing in humans is this. You know, we just want the best for our babies.

Tanya Tringali

Right? Regardless of how you come to parenthood. That is the universal. Absolutely. Wow, that's great. I'm curious. Remind me, I think you told me but I don't remember what kind of nurse were you when you worked as a nurse?

Kallista

an ICU nurse? Oh, that's really

Tanya Tringali

different.

Kallista

It is very, it's called intensive care for a reason. It was intense. And so there's a it's literally keeping people alive. You know, they're on the brink. So yeah, that's just because I had other plans. I had other plans before babies, I wanted to be a CRNA and nurse anesthetist. So that's why I went to ICU and then I met my husband and he kind of changed my mind. And

Tanya Tringali

so what kind of doctor is your husband?

Kallista

He's an orthopedic surgeon. Okay.

Tanya Tringali

I was very curious if either of you had anything to do with you know, maternal fetal anything? So?

Kallista

No, but he in when he was a medical student, he actually delivered like two babies. Just like, you know, yeah. And stance in his rotation.

Tanya Tringali

Yeah, right place right time.

Lo

Have you encountered confusion and anxiety when it comes to beating your baby? Whether you were in the prenatal stage, or are already feeding your baby, I would love to partner with you so that you feel at ease about the feeding choices you make for your baby. My name is Lo Nigrosh as an internationally board certified lactation consultant, I can combine my expertise of hormones milk supply, and infant and parent physiology. With your expertise of your family situation. To help you feel more joy and less frustration while feeding your baby. You can find all my information at my website at www.Quabbinbirthsservices.com

Tanya Tringali

Awesome, I enjoy hearing your story, I realized that we didn't quite get to the crux of all that you do an offer? And I want to kind of get a sense of what your coaching looks like. I don't know. Do you do it one on one? Do you offer classes? What's the structure of your coaching piece? I think your podcast, I think we all understand what you're doing there. And it's it's a beautiful mission. It overlaps with why I do mine, I'm sure. But you have this coaching piece and you have the online course. So can you tell us a little bit about those?

Kallista

Yeah, I do one on one coaching, it's you know, I kind of want to meet the mama wherever she is. So some people prefer a one on one. Some like the group coaching which is included in the courses for the most part. And so it's you could do courses only, and some people just like to do things alone and on their own pace instead of in a group or one on one. So it's a variety, forming a community where you can come in and get what you need. And also be just have that support and be supportive to others I think is so helpful. When you see you're not alone. You just feel better automatically. And so it's a lot of different levels. But yeah, it's it's definitely courses is like the foundation, because there's so much education around, you know, entering motherhood and the postpartum that you don't get while you're pregnant. When we're pregnant, and we take that hospital class, you know, when we read the books, we're so focused on the pregnancy and the delivery and the birth, that the the first three months is kind of an afterthought. And that is not the best place to start thinking of how you can support yourself because you're you just had birth, you know, there's the whole recovery from pregnancy and birth. And then you're not sleeping. Obviously, the baby needs to eat every few hours. And so that takes a toll. And you're trying to keep the baby alive for the first time. You're human. I mean, I know. That was my feeling was, wow, this really felt like a lot of pressure to make sure the baby was eating. I think that's we get into that. We obsess over that a lot in the beginning. So the whole feeding of the baby is is really top of mind the first several weeks.

Tanya Tringali

Absolutely. And it's the thing that I think gets undermined as well. So it is obviously critically important. We know that ad. So that's why we obsess about it, because it's so important. But we get so many mixed messages early on. And I think that's one of the things that really throws people into a tailspin is this you know, they're just so afraid. They're afraid they're not doing it right. And you know that it's like people who may really want to breastfeed, change over to formula, and nothing against people who choose to use formula, the issue, I think, for me, for you, for a lot of people who do this work is supporting people in their goal to breastfeed if that's what they want, and not undermining that. And that's what I think I see a lot.

Kallista

Exactly. And the more you know, the more knowledge you gather, before you get to that point, you'll know your options, you know, what's normal, and what's not normal, so that you can support yourself in your decision to breastfeed or not.

Tanya Tringali

Yeah. So when do you start working with people?

Kallista

My favorite, my sweet spot, if I could, if I could have my way all the time, would be the second trimester during pregnancy, because that gives me enough time, you know, to slowly learn things. second trimester is also when they're feeling a little bit better. They have that little extra energy after the first trimester, and then start putting things into place the third trimester so that you feel more ready when the baby comes. And I mean, truly ready, not just like, I have all the baby stuff, and it's washed and in the drawers and the nurseries like Pinterest perfect. You know, that's, that was me first time around?

Tanya Tringali

Well, that's a perfect segue into asking you what exactly you mean, when you say put your home on autopilot before baby arrives? Because I think that when people hear that, they might just think exactly what you said, like the simple tangible things. And I know you mean so much more than that.

Kallista

Right? And oh, my gosh, the home is such a huge job that we do, you know, almost might not mindlessly, but it's already on autopilot. Whether you think of it that way or not. We all have our weekly or daily, weekly, and monthly things that we do to run our households. And when you add a baby into that, it just just throws a wrench in the whole thing. You know, and that's one of the things we don't think about before the baby comes is how much we're actually already doing. Nevermind work because you're like, Oh, I'm gonna take maternity leave. And yeah, I have X amount of weeks off. And so that squared away, your home is another job that you're not thinking is a job. And so when you can take that off your plate and put it on autopilot as much as possible before the baby arrives, you just have more time more time to bond with your baby, your partner, and more time for yourself instead of you know, spending that the few moments you have when baby's asleep. Working on how stuff.

Tanya Tringali

Yeah, so how does this actually work? How do you explain to our listeners how they go about doing this?

Kallista

Okay, so first and foremost, you want to it has to enter your orbit, right? Like, oh, light bulb, I think I should start preparing the house just like I'm preparing my to take time off work. So it's a mindset mindset shift first off, and then I can quickly take everyone through a step by step that I love to teach. And I call it i Dad, which is inventory. And I'll go into each one quickly. But it's the i Dad acronym is inventory, delete, automate, and delegate. So automating your home, you need it first, have an idea of all the things are doing consciously because we're just doing things all the time, we don't know, we actually have a long list of things that we normally do. So you want to take an inventory, and talk to your partner, or whoever else may live with you because they're part of this. And list down all your daily, weekly, and monthly tasks and chores. And you want to keep this list a running list for a couple of weeks, at least because then things will pop up, you know, little by little and you're like, by the end of the two weeks, you'll be like holy moly, like I can't believe how much I'm doing already. And so you just get a picture right of all the things you and your partner are doing. So after that you want to start deleting things, things that you can take off your plate that you don't normally or you won't need for maybe two months or three months. And a good sub list of this is is like your bills, look at your subscriptions and memberships and things, you know, you're probably not going to attend some club. If you have a club membership for like, several weeks, you could take that off your list. And just things around the house that you you can put down, you know, so delete whatever you can. And then next, whatever is left, you want to automate. And the bills is my favorite thing. I mean, I actually don't love auto pay. But for two months, I could do that and just do auto pay for as many bills as I can. You can automate shopping, you know, the household staples, so that you don't have to worry about going to the store or even I use Instacart a lot now. But even ordering that, you know, you could just have something come to your door every week as a subscription, then there's many there's no Amazon, there's other subscription shopping stores online. And so yeah, automate whatever is possible that you can automate. And then the last step of this is to delegate. So you want to look at your list once again, and see what you can delegate. And this is actually a really good time to talk with your partner about the roles of these things. Because, you know, we're used to, like, my husband takes out the trash and I pay the bills, and I help the kids with the homework. Well, this is no this is was before I had kids, but you know, we do these things that we whether we've talked about it or not, we just know we're in charge of certain things. And so when the baby comes, this is what happens a lot with with couples first time parents is like, you start to take score of who's doing what, or you just feel like Gosh, I'm doing I feel like I'm carrying more of the load. And then the partner doesn't know like, oh, gosh, I didn't know you were doing all this. So just reassigning the who's responsible for what. And then I mean, I'm a big proponent of taking things off dad's plate to or partner's plate to because you want that time together. And so if you can outsource and delegate, you know, whatever is doable for your household, you know, a cleaning person, a gardener, someone to walk the dogs, if you have, you know, dog, enlist family members, they're always you know, I love milking pregnancy, you know, when they say, you know, do you need anything or let me know how I can help, like, take them up on that, because it's not going to last forever. And it is really the time you want people to help you. And it's so hard for many of us, lots of us to ask for help. So, you know, when you're given the opportunity, just take it. Yeah, so yeah, so yeah, that's the last piece is to just delegate as much as you can.

Tanya Tringali

Well, you know, I want to piggyback on what you just said about calling on family members. Because while that is such a great idea, and as you point out, some people, many people, most people have a hard time asking for what they need. What ends up happening, I think, is inadvertently people end up with visitors, not helpers. And that is not the same thing. And I don't think people think about that beforehand, that we have to be a little careful about who we invite into our home, in the days following the birth or even weeks or months for some people. Because if we slip into habits based on the way that relationship is, and now we are postpartum sleep deprived in pain, potentially all this stuff, and we find ourselves waiting on people, can I get you a glass of water? Do you need anything to do the data? That's not what we brought them over for. And so I think that's a big piece of the preparation is kind of helping people find the inner strength to be bold about that while they're still pregnant.

Kallista

Yeah, and be when you're pregnant. This is the great time to talk about it. They're not super excited to come over and see the baby yet. And I had a really cool, masterclass once, and I'm gonna do it again, it's called How to Set loving boundaries. And that's, you know, it could be family that doesn't want to come over and you have no control over that. And then it could be friends and family that are hovers. You know, they just want to be so involved and, and sometimes it's us too. And one of the things I experienced was that, you know, I wanted that adult conversation and so I would have somebody come over, and it was meant to be like an an hour visit and it turned into like three or four hours and I could have napped during that time when the baby was napping. And I ended up you know, I know how the night goes you know, like 1011 when they come When they wake up from that first long stretch, it's like, oh, I should have taken a nap myself or at least just rested. So that was actually me wanting to keep the conversation going, and just enjoying them. So one of the things I like to say, when you have visitors kind of set that boundary, you can even put, I have like a little template, note that you tape it on the front door, like, I'm so excited, you know, like a little script on the paper saying, I'm so excited, you're here, but I'm gonna want to chat like forever, please stop me like an hour, so I can rest. And these are some things you can do while you're here that would be helpful is like, you know, wash the dishes, or, you know, a few things that can be taken off your plate. So they're a little mommy helper, while they're your visitor and you know, filling yourself up with some some love and some social time with your friends and family.

Tanya Tringali

Absolutely, I so agree with all of that. I also think it's really important to tell visitors in advance that you can't know what you're going to be feeling like at that time, physically, emotionally, in terms of sleep, how are things going with feeding all of that. So I think that when you give someone a potential visitor, that insight that they're not thinking of all they're thinking of is holding the baby like it's a one track mind, I want to meet and hold the baby. But when they get wind of like, oh, right, there's all these other things. Most people want to be helpful. They just hadn't thought of it yet, or they didn't know how. And so now you might get some people pulling back and giving you space. And they're the right people to pull back and give space. And you'll get some other people who really step up to the challenge or the task and understand that you can't know in advance what you're going to want or need. And so they really need to be willing to jump in and whatever way it is that you need them at that time.

Kallista

Exactly. I think everyone's focused on the baby. And they forget mom. And so by saying that it's a little like, ding, ding, ding Oh, yeah. Like, you are going through this right now. I should be mindful of you and your rest and recovery. So yeah, it's just a gentle like, Hey, I'm here too.

Tanya Tringali

And I think this is a way partners can actually take often first step off, in standing up for the person who's pregnant in the equation here is to say, especially when it's the other side of the family, because that can be difficult for people is to be like, Hey, I just want to talk to you guys about this. I know you're excited. I know you want to meet the baby. But I just want to make sure everybody's on the same page. And it's an opportunity to like, really show your support. Because it's a challenging time. It doesn't mean it's not a beautiful time. But it's a very challenging time. So yeah, I think these are all really great tangible steps. And I love how you've made them so concise. Even when you first started new said like, what do you do every day, every week, every month. And I'm like, that's so simple, and yet so accessible. It's a such an accessible way to think about all the things that we just mostly don't think about until it's too late.

Kallista

Yeah, it's Yeah, I think that is the biggest thing is, you know, we think we could just throw the baby in our lives. And we can keep doing things the way we were doing. But it's like, you either change it or it's going to change you like big time. And like I said, like in the postpartum period, like using that time, and it becomes an afterthought. It's still doable, but why not do it ahead of time and put as many things you can add on autopilot and prepare like your family and your community, like you were just saying, and that way when the baby comes here, it's really about bonding with your baby recovering from birth, and just enjoying that time and thriving versus just like oh, I can't wait till you know this phase is over.

Tanya Tringali

Are you pregnant? Or a new parent looking to ensure a better postpartum experience? Or are you a birth worker looking to improve your postpartum care skills? Check out thriving after birth, an online self paced course by me midwife and educator Tanya Tringali. It's 10 and a half hours of video content featuring experts in lactation mental health, pelvic floor health, pediatric sleep issues. You also get worksheets in a workbook as well as options to have a one on one session with me, sign up and Mother wet maternity.com/thriving And let's improve postpartum care together.

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Tanya Tringali

So other than some of the things you've mentioned, which are all great examples, what are your favorite or most important or most critical things that people should be thinking about before the baby arrives,

Kallista

Well we went over the household, I think that is a big piece that we miss as new parents. So after that, I would say, shift some attention onto your relationship, it changes the dynamics, of course, you're excited to have your baby, of course, you love each other, if you decided to have this baby together, you know, so all that is there. But that's kind of not enough in the postpartum period, you need to prepare it as well, just like you're preparing the nursery just like you're preparing your home and going off on maternity leave. And one tip I like to give for the relationship piece is if you don't already know it, is to find your out your love language, because that will help both of you just give each other the type of love that you you know how to receive without even thinking about it. There are five and there's they're easy. And even without taking a quiz, which there's a simple quiz, you can take online, on many sites. It's it's quality, time, touch, receiving gifts, acts of service, and oh, words of affirmation. That's my husband. So words of affirmation. And we want all of them right. But there's one that is like your top one. And no matter. Okay, so this is for the partners and family members, no matter what mom's love language is, acts of service is is going to trump all that. So I love touch. But that was like low on my priority list. Part of I mean, yeah, hug me hug me. And you know, I appreciate that still. But it's the acts of service, like the service needs to be bumped up, like, Let me hold the baby. So you could shower or eat or, you know, go outside. And, you know, so that's a tip for partners and family members is just give mom acts of service, and that not only will she feel loved, but it's truly like physiologically what is going to help her.

Tanya Tringali

Yeah, totally. I love that. I mean, one of the things I encourage couples to do, so I, if somebody goes to my website, I'm sure some of our listeners have done so but if you are on my website, and you sit there for a little while, a pop up comes up. And it is like a freebie that I give away. That's called Preparing your relationship, right? Then it goes through so much of what you just said. But you have this way of being very concise. And I really liked that. That's really great, because I'm a little bit wordy, and I talk too much. But you are very concise. And you say things in such a neat, clean way. I love it. But I do go through a lot of these things. And one of the things that is so important to me that people have often not thought about and that I talk to couples about so I really tried to get partners to come to our sessions, I'm sure you do, too, is the difference between equity and equality. I think we as modern women have spent so much time trying to create equal relationships equal pay equal this equal that we think about that a lot. And that's not to invalidate how important that is. But when it comes to trying times in life, we have to let that go. Because it's never going to work, we have to just be in this really extreme, give and take and say, This is what I'm good at, this is what I have to offer and step up and do that and vice versa. And know that the tables will turn and it will come back. So I think about you know, like for instance, I'll give a personal example because it would come across as way too gendered if it wasn't personal. I hate sports. I really hate sports. And I was afraid to have a boy. Because I was like what if my boy wants to play football? What will I do? That was a big fear of mine. And I did not have a partner who would who liked football either. But let's imagine a situation where somebody does. The time will come when maybe you had this really intensive time, breastfeeding, doing whatever you're doing. But now the kids off playing football and dad loves football. And they get to do that thing together. And now you're getting some free time that you've deserved for years. So that's a really like long winded way of saying it works itself out. It all comes out in the wash. But if we don't internalize that early, we spend a lot of time frustrated and like with a lot of tension building in the relationship because we're so busy thinking that it's not equal. I don't know how you really how you tackle that. But I mean, that's kind of the global way that I like to think about this from early on.

Kallista

So much changes when the baby comes because, oh, even more recently, just some of my good friends, you know, they're they're very like 5050 with household, like the finances and the household work. And then the baby comes and one of my friends thinks that she could still do 50% of everything and take care of the baby. I'm like, no, no, no, no, that isn't how it works. You know? It's, it's like, Is he home breastfeeding? Is he like, 50% of the time? Is he home? Is he up 50% of the night like, not to take score, which is, I mean, I just did it. But you know...

Tanya Tringali

Well you are pointing out why you don't want to do that you're you're using it as an example of this is not sustainable.

Kallista

It's not black and white. It's not like down the middle. You know, you can't go Dutch on parenthood, especially in the postpartum period. Parents are couples, because that's another thing, right? You're just your lovers. And now your parents, you know, when the baby's not here, everything could be like all roses and, and rainbows. But when the baby's here, you know, that's when a lot of the hard discussions come up. And, you know, having them earlier and not in the midst of sleep deprivation, where you're both not at your best is not the best time to have these conversations. So that's another big piece to prepare before the baby arrives. And count, it is so overlooked and under valued these conversations, you know, because they're not easy all the time.

Tanya Tringali

No, I think these are hard conversations. And I think a lot of people haven't had these conversations until push comes to shove. And oftentimes until they've found the right support, that kind of nudges them to do it because again, you want to focus on all the positive, you want to focus on how good it's going to feel to have your baby in your arms. And I think one of the things that I've really been spending time with is this idea. I know I've said it on the podcast before, of a real sign of maturity and growth to me as being able to hold two opposing thoughts simultaneously, and allowing them to be equally valid. So while you can love your baby, and love your family, it can also be very hard. And it can be sometimes a dark time or a sad time or whatever, fill in the blank with whatever each person's individual experiences. But we need to talk about both because I feel like you know, in this whole pendulum swinging that we've seen in the recent past, which I'm thrilled about and honored to be a part of is talking about the harder stuff. Again, the pendulum swings, and we talk about the hard stuff. And now maybe we're scaring everybody, maybe we're taking away people's joy. And so lately I've really been thinking about how do we do both, because even in the stories that are the hardest to hear, there's a lot of beauty to be had. So anyway, I think you get what I'm trying to say.

Kallista

And I've been there I've been there like postpartum depression and still loving my baby postpartum. Like no one told me about this. No one said, I never learned any of this in like nursing, you know, or my, you know, no one I met my 20 OBGYN visits, I never thought about postpartum, like how to deal with the next 12 weeks?

Tanya Tringali

Well, it's funny because just suddenly, I'm thinking about I often think in analogies and, you know, I'm thinking about how there's this area that I'm very passionate about preventative medicine, just making this analogy to the medical world, right, preventative medicine, preconception care, whatever it is, there's a number of different words that kind of encompass the idea that we can focus on our wellness before we're ill or prepare for something that is to come prepare our bodies for pregnancy, whatever the case may be, I feel like this conversation falls in line with that, in that these things exist. There is a place for them already in the structure of medicine and society, but they are like, they're still kind of secrets, so to speak. Not many people are utilizing them or taking advantage of them. And that is true for both the medical professionals, the birth workers, but also clients and patients. They just don't know that they can harness the power of be it preventative medicine, preconception care, preparing for baby in advance. It all kind of goes together as part of the same story that we are trying to change the narrative of so that people don't have the experience. You had the first time around. And on that note, I actually realized, I'm really curious, we'd never talked about your third baby. How far down the road after you had that kind of more magical second experience, did you have the third baby?

Kallista

It was a while. I mean, I love, you know, the early childhood years, and I love being a mom. So I wanted a third, maybe a couple years after the second, but my husband was like, No, I think we're done. And I was like, Oh, shucks, I even started moving rooms around, like I combined that because they're like, twins, you know, my first two. So I'm like, I got him a bunk bed. I was preparing a room to be a nursery again, secretly, that my husband said no. And then a few years after this, like my baby fever, and he said, No, he turned 40. And then he changed his mind. He was like, Oh, my gosh, I think I have a biological clock, too. And all of a sudden, I want another baby. I was like, what? So Oh, my gosh, it happened really fast. And like super fertile. And so yeah, our first two are six and seven years older than the baby who is now three. So.

Tanya Tringali

So what was that experience like?

Kallista

That was every experience, it has been so different. It was great in a lot of ways, because I already knew what to expect. What was hard for me was juggling the older two. So what I did was I homeschool. And so I'm used to being with my older two all the time. And I didn't realize how much I would miss them when the baby came, and I packed their schedule. So even though we homeschool, we have a lot of like activities. And so that semester, I loaded them up with even more activities. And so our nanny would take them to these activities, and I was home with the baby. And I didn't realize how much I'd miss them. And plus, I think just having my third at a little bit older age, I was 38 it was just a different experience, like the hormonal shift was different, the recovery was different, because he was almost 10 pounds. And, and so all that was just a little bit different. And I experienced postpartum depression. And you know, I know now, you know, just to be more just vigilant about that, when I talked to mamas, because I was like, Oh, I don't have experience. I don't have history of depression. I didn't have postpartum depression with my first two. So it was not in my radar to be on the lookout for it. And my husband was actually the one who noticed it and brought it up. And so I got the help. And you know, and the big thing is, once I got the help, so I went to therapy. And then also around that time was when the we sleep train, I Oh, that was the other thing was my first i. At four months, when I found out I was pregnant, I was like I need to sleep before the sex baby comes. And so we researched the sleep training, I was like what, well, we messed this baby up and my husband, like he did all this research, and we decided it was going to be okay, so we did it. And so I've sleep trained all my kids. And so when the third I sleep, train them, also all that coincided with just the outs like getting help and all that stuff. Like I finally felt normal again. But yeah, it was definitely a whole nother experience.

Tanya Tringali

It's funny when you mentioned postpartum depression earlier in the conversation I assumed you were talking about after your first baby, because that's the one you were saying was hard. And the second one was easy, but that's when I realized we'd never talked about the third. So there you go. It's interesting that it got you after the third, when you'd had that hard first experience and that you don't consider that you were depressed at all, with the first you just were acknowledging how hard it was.

Kallista

And I probably had postpartum blues, which was you know, just a shorter just, you know, which is even more common. But it wasn't, I wasn't crying all the time. Like with my third I would just start crying because I was just exhausted and I had more on my plate with the two kids and homeschooling. So it was a different experience. With my first it was hard, but she was my sole focus. I wasn't working. I didn't have any other kids yet. Our home was, you know, our starter home, which was you know, there wasn't a lot, you know, in the household running of things. And so she I just had more time for her. And same for the second the second I got a little bit more help because I needed it. But yeah, the third I was it was another kind of like humbling experience that knocked me down because I'm like, I'm a pro at this. And it's just it's just shows You have every baby that comes is going to change your life. And it's all different.

Tanya Tringali

Well, you can't be your own midwife, you can't be your own doctor, you can't be your own coach, you can't be your own anything. You've got to look to other people for that. But I love how you frame that as humbling, because we all I think, do need to be humbled sometimes, because it makes us better people, especially those of us who are helpers. I think we use those experiences to build what exactly what you've done, you've built your business, on the experiences that have humbled you. So that third one, I'm sure added another element or flair to the work you do. Yeah, you know, going back to the, your postpartum depression and how you're your partner is the one who identified it. That's one of the most enormous reasons I bring partners into as many sessions as I can, especially prenatally, I actually don't care if they're there for every session after, unless it relates to stuff where we really need their assistance. But if we're kind of getting into pelvic floor, and various other things, I, you know, whatever, we can be alone for those sessions. And that's fine. But I look the partners in the eyes and say, You are the best set of eyes and ears that she's gonna have. And we need you to be aware, you know, this person, you know who she is today. And if you a little voice in your head is telling you, this is not this is not my partner. Honor that voice. Talk to me, talk to your local provider, get it out of your mouth, right? So they all have my phone number. They all know they can reach out to me anytime, because it's exactly that partners are the ones that are going to find it. So I'm really glad that you shared that detail. Because we don't stress that enough, I think,

Tanya Tringali

Hey, everyone, it's me, Tanya, your host here at the mothership podcast. You know, I sometimes invite my clients on the show to talk about their birth stories and postpartum experiences. But I want to tell you a little bit more about what those clients and I actually do together. I started mother wit to help people in the perinatal period achieve their health and wellness goals. That means whether you're hoping to conceive and struggling with high blood pressure, or high blood sugar, or you're having trouble managing anxiety or depression in the postpartum period, or maybe you just need support and advocacy between prenatal or postpartum visits, I can help get a discount on your first consultation with me at motherwort maternity.com. Using the code first console 10% off. That's one 0% symbol, all one word, I'm looking forward to working with you, and maybe having you on the show, too.

Kallista

Yeah, and what I like to teach now too, is because of that experience, so there's the Edinburg, perinatal depression scale. So there's that quiz that you can find online anywhere. And, you know, it's recommended that you take it around 28 weeks, you know, or whenever you, you hear this, and if you're pregnant, just take it, and then have it scheduled, put it in your calendar to take again at around six to eight weeks, and maybe even more down the line. So you have a baseline of your score of how you're feeling. And maybe you're already feeling really down, you know, while you're pregnant, and you can get to help them. But if you're feeling fine, that's great. And then it's like plugged into your schedule to just kind of a reminder to check in with yourself, and also your partner hat and tell your partner about this. And that way, it's not going to fall through the cracks, because we're not going to remember, you know, several weeks later when we're juggling all these other things. And so if you just it's kind of like a just create your own process to check in with yourself.

Tanya Tringali

And people's providers should be giving them this scale, but it doesn't happen everywhere. I'm impressed with pediatricians actually, because many of my clients will tell me that their pediatrician gave them this already, usually early in the postpartum period. So I do offer this to everybody kind of early as well. And I've been impressed with the number of people who have said to me, Oh, I've already taken that my pediatrician gave it to me. I'm like, right on pediatricians. Good job.

Kallista

I actually have an interview with a pediatrician for my podcast later today. And I wonder, say that

Tanya Tringali

very interesting, you often let me know. All right, is there anything else that you think we missed? That's critical to the way you think about this that you want to share with listeners before we wrap up

Kallista

to wrap up is and this is just the you know, tip of the iceberg to just drop this and like say bye but you know, the self you know, it's it's the knowledge that piece like you educate a lot of women and moms to and partners. There's the big education piece that's needed. And then there's like the softer side which is like the self care you know, and I think we I learned this only through experience not be cuz I prepared myself for it. And it's what I like to teach moms too is you know, don't forget yourself, put things in your calendar, you know, your first date night, your first self treat, you know, to get a massage or a facial something tangible. And so that it, you don't forget about it, put it in your calendar now, even if you're like still in your second or third trimester. And that way you don't forget about yourself, because it's very, very easy to do.

Tanya Tringali

I love that you brought that up. In my online course thriving after birth, I have a handout that one of the therapists who guest stars in the course, came in and provided was this little document where you can use this piece of paper, print it out, put it on your refrigerator, and you can list what are the things I would do for myself, if I just had Five minutes, because we know that five minutes is a lot of time when you have a newborn. What are the things I would do for myself, if I had 15 minutes, 30 minutes an hour, so forth, you can you can rearrange these in whatever way makes sense for your life. And as time progresses, you can alter those windows. But if while you are not feeling stressed, or anxious, or nervous, or sad, or tired or emotional in any way, so while you're still pregnant and in a good headspace, get down on paper, those things you do for yourself that fit those time domains. You can go to that list when you can't think straight and say, oh my god, I actually have five minutes what's on my list? What can I do? And so that's like, I feel like that's in line with what you said about like, looking at your life, what do you do each day, each week each month? That's kind of one of those ways of thinking.

Kallista

I love that. And yeah, that's like, transferable to any time of your life, you know, like, I want one of my values is efficiency. And so whenever I have like five minutes, I think, you know, even now now I'm not in postpartum. But what can I do in like this 15 minute block time that I have the energy for? Because sometimes it's not, I don't have the energy, so I'm just gonna not do anything. I'm gonna binge on my housewives. And that's my 15 minutes. Or, or if I have more energy than I'll do one of the tasks I know I have to do, you know, so it's, it's like, just self care using your time well, and sometimes it's nothing. And that's great.

Tanya Tringali

And it's also about being honest about what self care means, because we might want to write on that paper, read a book and then it's like, ha ha, ha, I'm so tired. I can't think I'm not going to read a book. So like, be really honest with yourself about what's possible when you're feeling sleep deprived. And all of these things. Calista I have really loved this conversation and loved having you. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today.

Kallista

Oh, I appreciate you having me on. I love talking to you to

Tanya Tringali

Tell our listeners how they can find you.

Kallista

Oh, I'd love to. So I'm on Instagram at NewMomBoss website is also www.newmomboss.com. And my podcast is The New Mom Boss Podcast

Tanya Tringali

Nice and easy, and I'll put it in the show notes to make it even easier.

Tanya Tringali

Thank you for listening to the mother whip podcast. If any of the issues we discussed today resonate with you are your experience. I'd love to hear from you. Leave me a voicemail at 917-310-0573 Or better yet, email me a voice memo at Tanya at Mother wit maternity.com. I really want to hear what worked for you what didn't work, what support you'd wished you had, how you got through the tough times how you advocated for yourself, or especially any tips you want to share with our listeners. I want to hear all of it. And if you'd really like to work together, you can get a discount on your first consultation with me at Mother wit maternity.com using the code first console 10% off. That's one 0% symbol, all one word. Okay, that's all that's wonderful being in community with you all. Thanks again for listening and see you next time.

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And remember, listeners, nothing we discussed on this show should ever be considered medical advice. Please speak to your local provider about anything that comes up in this show that resonates with you and your needs and your health care.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai